by Unibot <Thomasia> Nice to see you again.
<Thomasia> I'm a bit early, but it doesn't look like I'm interrupting anything.
<@Unibot> Of course, yeah. It's an honour and pleasure.
<Thomasia> Likewise.
<@Unibot> Yeah we usually start advertising about now for our events.
<@Unibot> So the auditorium will fill up.
<Thomasia> I'm sure it should be interesting. We'll see what I can remember and what I can make up.
<@frattastan> And if we can tell the difference.
<@Unibot> Haha.
<Thomasia> You very well may remember better than I do. Is the game still ongoing?
<Thomasia> I haven't played in years, to be honest.
<@Unibot> Oh yes, absolutely.
<@Unibot> It struggled more to stay alive in 2008.
<@Unibot> But it kind of went under a revival.
<Thomasia> Has it taken on any new features or has it gone much more RP?
* XaviVilhjalmsson|YTT is now known as TomPrescott|YTT
<@Unibot> Um, it's kind of become more segregated.
<Thomasia> I miss the boys sometimes, even though I stay friends with a few of them.
<@Unibot> Where you've got clearly defined RP communities and Gameplay communities.
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<@Eluvatar> There's some interesting graphs, actually
<@Unibot> And there's def new features.
<Thomasia> That makes sense. It seemed to be moving that direction.
<@Unibot> Yes, it was.
<Thomasia> Maybe I'll let someone try to recruit me by the end of the night. lol
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<@Eluvatar> I'll take you up on that
<Sev> haha to what part of the game?
<@Eluvatar> I remember considering The Merit in 2004
<@Eluvatar> and being scared off by how professional-looking and serious it seemed
<@Unibot> I wish I had been around for it. I would have been one of its crabby defender members, I think.
<Thomasia> We had a really nice run, and some great people. Robin (Winnipeg) never got enough credit for all he did.
<@Unibot> Winni gets a lot more credit now, I think.
<@Unibot> Partly because he was one of the ones who stuck around.
<@Unibot> He runs The West Pacific's forum now.
<@Unibot> Great guy.
<@Eluvatar> This may be of some interest to you -- http://www.thenorthpacific.org/world_wa_counts.html
<@Eluvatar> I really should give that page better decorations >_>
<@Unibot> It always surprises older returning players to learn 10000 Islands is still going strong.
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<@Unibot> <@Eluvatar> This may be of some interest to you -- http://www.thenorthpacific.org/world_wa_counts.html
<@Unibot> <@Eluvatar> I really should give that page better decorations >_>
<@Unibot> <@Unibot> It always surprises older returning players to learn 10000 Islands is still going strong.
<@Eluvatar> not as strong as it was a couple years ago though
<@Eluvatar> they broke 1000 endorsements on Ananke II didn't they?
<@Unibot> Yeah, it was massive a few years ago.
<Thomasia_> It's still an impressive achievement.
<@Eluvatar> or was it only 950+?
<@frattastan> I think it was AD.
<@frattastan> and they broke 1000.
<@Eluvatar> Ah ok
<@Unibot> It was AD who broke the 1000 record, but it was still 10000 Islands.
<@Eluvatar> I paid more attention when Ananke II broke 880, Nastic's old record
<@Unibot> Thing is: 10000 Islands is bigger than they were, but they're just as isolationist.
<@Unibot> If not a lot more.
<@Eluvatar> Hey, they entertain relations with several regions
<@Eluvatar> including Wysteria, Yggdrasil, and Canada
* Thomasia Quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
<@Eluvatar> Don't you call them isolationist
<@Unibot> Sure, but that's a really small net of relations for such a major power.
<Thomasia_> So who are the heavies these days?
<@Unibot> That's hard to say properly.
<@Unibot> The GCRs have a lot more focus now.
<@Eluvatar> They were a big deal in 2004 too
<@Unibot> And the spheres of "invading" powers and "defending" powers still stratifes power.
<@Eluvatar> Well in the past there weren't 'invading powers' as such
<@Unibot> But both are more fractured.
<@Eluvatar> well, after a certain point
<@Unibot> There isn't the "ADN" or something similar anymore.
<@Unibot> Defending powers is like alphabet soup, really.
<Thomasia_> It's not surprising things are highly fractured. Too many top dog types around to ever have it be any other way.
<@Eluvatar> No, defender activity tends to be as part of a broad coalition of FRA, UDL, FTMS, SDF, TaiMil, etc; and TITO
<@Unibot> ^ As I said, alphabet soup.
<@Unibot>
<Thomasia_> I was always an isolationist/defender by nature, but it got...stagnant after a few years. So, that was one reason we became involved from time to time.
<@frattastan> and it's weaker compared to invaders.
<@Eluvatar> The SPSF and EPSA often join in liberations too, as sometimes does NPA
<@Unibot> Yeah I'd say it's a weaker network than invaders, as Fratt says. Which is probably a big difference from 2004-06.
<@Eluvatar> Huge.
<@Unibot> The politics often lean against defenders and by default distrust them.
<Thomasia_> The invaders lost a lot of strength when they let them designate founder protections.
<@Unibot> And then they gained a lot of strength with regional influence as a feature.
<Thomasia_> Before then, it was really wide open
<@Unibot> Because it could be argued that invading was "just another part of the game".
<@Unibot> Which in some ways undercuts what defenders do.
<@Eluvatar> When were Liberations added again?
<@frattastan> 2009.
<@Unibot> 2009.
<@Eluvatar> Between 2006 and 2009, some invaders found they could act basically unopposed
<@Eluvatar> if they imposed a password quickly enough.
<@Unibot> I'm not sure if Thomasia was around for Regional Influence.
<@Unibot> It seemed to me you left around 2006 for retirement?
<Thomasia_> I don't remember it.
<@frattastan> It replaced the griefing rules.
<@Eluvatar> Poorly
<@Unibot> Yep.
<@Eluvatar> (Or so say most defenders XD)
<Thomasia_> um...I think it was a bit later than that, but I had checked out of the main game for quite a while and hung in the Met.
<@Unibot> It basically is a in-game feature that caps what you can do as a delegate (ejects and bans) based on your "influence" (time in a region + endorsements).
<Thomasia_> We really went hardcore in the direction of RP at that point, and had fun with it. A rather nasty civil war and all that.
<@Unibot> But means the moderators have little role in judging what is an acceptable invasion and what isn't.
<Thomasia_> Well, that's not ridiculous as a concept. It makes sense that you'd have influence.
<Thomasia_> So basically invasions take longer?
<@Unibot> I think so, yes.
<@Eluvatar> That's not the whole of it.
<@frattastan> Yeah. Unless invaders left sleeper agents in regions to gain influence.
<@Eluvatar> For instance right now in Anne Frank, the nazi occupiers are unable to expel the liberator coalition's beachhead, so to speak
<Thomasia_> Do you find people still run multiple nations for that reason?
<@Unibot> *sleeper agents = nations that stay in a region for a long period before to gain "influence".
<@frattastan> like, puppet nations?
<@Eluvatar> Yes, it's one reason some people have altogether too many puppet nations
<Thomasia_> Precisely.
* @Unibot nods.
<@Eluvatar> The other reason is to be able to participate in multiple operations in an update
<Thomasia_> See, that always irritated me, and I used to have a few.
<@Eluvatar> these puppets are known as "switchers"
<@Eluvatar> resign wa, apply back, join wa on another nation, repeat
<Thomasia_> I can appreciate the strategy behind it, but still.
<@Unibot> By the way, Thomasia, would you like this Q and A to be more formal (with it muted and questions directed through me) or more informal, with the discussion opened up to everyone.
<Thomasia_> It doesn't matter. If you have a specific set of questions you want to ask at first, that's fine. If not, I'm not standing on formality.
<@Unibot> I think informality might be better. People will have lots of questions, I'm sure.
<Thomasia_> Okay, then I'll try to answer specific questions by addressing the person at the beginning of it if it gets busy. Fortunately, I type quickly.
<@Unibot> We billed it as "Thomasia and The Meritocracy" but you had such a varied career, I'm sure people will have lots of questions about other stuff.
<Thomasia_> Of course.
<@Unibot> I know I had a few telegrams asking me to ask you about AA
<@Eluvatar> & Accelsior?
<Thomasia_> (laughs) I know less than people would think. I really came in at the end of that, but I'll share what I know.
<Thomasia_> Well, I know a little more about that.
<@Unibot> Okay.
<Thomasia_> What was the name of the guy who originally led that?
<@Unibot> Um. God,
<@Unibot> Erm, was it Mammo under a different name?
<@Unibot> New People?
<@Eluvatar> I think most of what we know about AA comes from http://s8.zetaboards.com/The_RR_and_RRA/topic/503382/1/ lol
<Thomasia_> That might be it.
<@Eluvatar> Nusseberg
<Thomasia_> I wish I could remember better. That's a big part of this story.
<@Eluvatar> Nusseberg != New People I'm pretty sure
<Thomasia_> Yes, Nusseberg. That's it.
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<@Unibot> Mammothistan had his fingers everywhere though in early "invaderdom". I see his name everywhere when I look back into old archives.
<@Eluvatar> He was also Prime Minister of The North Pacific, once
<kudzu> best PM ever
<Thomasia_> They were very busy back then.
<@Unibot> Haha.
<kudzu> it's all been downhill since
<@Eluvatar> I don't think so
<kudzu> the good ol' day
<Thomasia_> It's amazing this game has endured over 10 years. It's a marketing promotion that far outsold its purpose.
* @Eluvatar chuckles
<@Unibot> http://s4.zetaboards.com/UDL/topic/9711459/
<@Unibot> ^ There's an essay you wrote, Thomasia.
<@Unibot> Eight years ago
<@Unibot> Still on the books!
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<@Eluvatar> [19:28:03] * Eluvatar chuckles
<@Eluvatar> [19:28:41] <@Unibot> http://s4.zetaboards.com/UDL/topic/9711459/
<@Eluvatar> [19:28:51] <@Unibot> ^ There's an essay you wrote, Thomasia.
<@Eluvatar> [19:29:13] <@Unibot> Eight years ago
<@Eluvatar> [19:29:19] <@Unibot> Still on the books!
<@Eluvatar> for your reference
<Thomasia> I had a few of those, actually. It was like being Cicero.
<@Unibot> Yes, I don't have all of The Met's releashes.
<@Unibot> I've collected as many as I could find from various embassies.
* MathiasPaatelainen|SJG is now known as ShutUp
* ShutUp is now known as MathiasPaatelainen|SJG
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* MathiasPaatelainen|SJG is now known as ShutUp|ETM
<Thomasia> Interesting.
* ShutUp|ETM is now known as MathiasPaatelainen|SJG
<@Unibot> I'm missing Issue 10, 11, 13, 14, 15 and anything after 19. But I think the current collection is pretty solid.
<@Unibot> But The Times is a wonderful resource for NS History.
<@Unibot> So I've done my best to find the old issues.
<Thomasia> That's pretty impressive. I don't know who else might have saved them.
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<@Unibot> I mean, there's some seriously great stuff in the Times though. Hell you have the only NS-led interview with Max Barry AND Free4All in your first issue.
<@Unibot> *surviving NS-led
<@Eluvatar> NB: Free4All is now administrator Ballotonia
<Thomasia> It was a much smaller world and he was still using it to sell the book back then.
<@Unibot> Yeah.
<Thomasia> I think I was in the first two hundred nations, but that is a funny story in and of itself.
<@Unibot> And if any players wants to know more about The Core in The West Pacific, The Times is a big resource for information on it.
<@Unibot> Haha, well. That's good way to begin.
<@Unibot> How would you describe early NationStates to us?
<Thomasia> I was introduced to the game by the first guy to get banned. I forget his name, but I think he was from China and got in trouble for creating multiple nations, which was once an issue.
<@Eluvatar> ... it was originally not okay to have multiple nations, period?
<Thomasia> But, I ended up staying.
<Thomasia> Nope, you could get banned for that.
<Thomasia> Once the number rose above 1,000, they stopped caring.
<@Unibot> Haha, that's amazing.
<@Unibot> Banned Nation Zero.
* @Unibot chuckles.
<Thomasia> But in the beginning, there was just one pacific as the feeder region, and it didn't have any special traits beyond being a feeder region.
<Thomasia> So, we could build regions, and were rushing to do so because the only way it sorted was by size. If you were on the first page, or in the first ten regions, people joined you.
<@Eluvatar> There was no recruitment telegramming then?
<Thomasia> The one I formed, the Meritocratic Isles, was on the first page, and was once the third biggest region in the game. I think we topped out around 90, but in a world of 1,500 nations, that was good.
<Thomasia> Telegramming was just beginning. Yes.
<Thomasia> And I did it liberally to get mine going.
<Thomasia> But the thought of those of us who were playing is that the UN would matter, and in fact, you could pull together a coalition to actually have sway when only a thousand people were involved with it.
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<@Unibot> Wow.
<Thomasia> Of course, those of us who were libertarian minded, which most of my friends were, got pissed off when we couldn't have what we wanted, and so we left en masse which was considered quite the scandal then, maybe two months into the game.
<Thomasia> But that was the true origin of the Meritocracy as an independent entity. We kept to our forum there, banned UN membership for those in our region, and between Eureka, Winnipeg, and I built the first iteration of the Meritocracy.
<Thomasia> About that time, the pacifics were divided into the four regions, and the Atlantic started to rise, as a counterpoint to the "mindlessness" of those regions.
<@Unibot> What was A.L.L's relatonship with The Meritocracy?
<Thomasia> The ALL was a creation of the Met along with several allied regions.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> Many of us in the Meritocracy wore several hats, and as time went on, we became less a collection of ideologues than a gathering of seasoned players.
<Thomasia> So, we were pretty heavily involved in the defender side, and we went after the Atlantic with some successes.
<@Eluvatar> four? Shouldn't it be five?
<@Unibot> TEP was latter
<@Unibot> *later
<Thomasia> By then, however, Nusseberg was losing interest, and the ACC was fracturing.
* @Eluvatar is a little confused
<@Unibot> I'm pretty sure TEP was a later development, no?
<Thomasia> I only remember four, but I could be wrong.
<@Unibot> TP, TWP, TSP, TNP would make four.
<Thomasia> It was never my area of main concern, so I'll defer to others on that. Frankly, the pacific regions were just spam central by that point anyway.
<Thomasia> At least, that's how it seemed to those of us who remembered a smaller world.
* @Unibot nods.
<@Eluvatar> http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 5&t=272933
<@Eluvatar> My observations recorded there led me to believe TNP and TSP were older than TWP, which may have in turn been older than TEP
* @Eluvatar nods
<Thomasia> So, since you asked about Accelsior, that was born out of a series of conversations between Nussberg and myself where he asked me to come into help fix and run the ACC.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> So, I tried for a while, and though we experienced a brief revival, I will admit we weren't overly effective. The problem is the game rules really shifted in favor of defenders for a time then.
<Thomasia> But we took the good people off to the Met, and there we delved deeply into RP.
<ElFijiGrande> Sorry to interrupt - could you elaborate on the sway of the game rules?
<Thomasia> I can't say with certainty we were the first, but we certainly were one of the first to go that direction, and we went as deeply and as well as anyone. We had many great and accomplished players and nations.
<Thomasia> Sure, ElFij.
<Thomasia> Back then, we did have delegates, but they were just a matter of simple majority vote.
<Thomasia> Moreover, a delegate could kick anyone out of a non-feeder region.
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<Thomasia> There were very few protections for the unprepared nation and they were generally whiny about when it happened to them.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> That's why they added founders, and in fact, that's why the Meritocratic Isles moved to The New Meritocracy, so we wouldn't have to worry about that.
<Thomasia> At that point, attacking became sort of a futile proposition.
<@Unibot> I think you've answered this question, but maybe you might be able to elbaborate on parts: "Also I'm interested in The Meritocracy's relationship with the Allied Liberation League, both at the start and later when more regions joined the alliance. How did the Meritocracy/the Senate view their relationship with the regions they were allied with through ALL?" ; this was a question someone had (I incidentially asked something similar).
<ElFijiGrande> I see. Thank you.
<Thomasia> the Meritocracy, by its nature, was very isolationist.
<Thomasia> So, the ALL was really an effort to reach out to the world, and there was much division within the Meritocracy about it.
<Thomasia> The old guard was mostly in favor of messing around a bit, but many of our middle guard members like Jasque and Eli who did contribute much were more hesitant.
<@Unibot> Would it be fair to say it was the pet project of some of the Met? While others were opposed?
<Thomasia> The relationship was mostly defensive, but it was a chance for certain citizens who wanted to go out and play to do so.
<Thomasia> Here's how I would make the analogy. A few of us went out into Gaul to play Caesar or Antony while the Senate sat at home.
* @Unibot chuckles.
<@Unibot> Alright.
<Thomasia> Of course, sometimes, we brought trouble back. And I'm sure that irritated some of our peers. Oddly enough, I was never Consul of the Meritocracy, either as Thomasia or Hetaira, my later pseudonym.
<@Unibot> By the way, were you a delegate of Lazarus?
<Thomasia> I wrote our constitution and instead served as Tribune, which you might call akin to the judiciary. But I also left a little clause somewhere in there that let me veto anything.
<Thomasia> No, I was not.
<@Eluvatar> hah
<Thomasia> that was where the resurrected nations went, right?
<@Eluvatar> (sorry, the clause to veto anything amuses me)
<@Unibot> Yes.
<Thomasia> 18 pages makes it easy to hide one line.
<Thomasia>
<ElFijiGrande> haha
<@Unibot> I think I had read something where you were working in Lazarus or something with someone. That's why I asked. Don't mind me.
<Thomasia> It's okay. I might have tweaked something there. I forget more than I remember.
<@Unibot> I can't imagine answering questions on my NS career in eight years.
<@Unibot>
<@Unibot> You're doing great.
<Thomasia> History gives polish to anyone.
<@Unibot> Ananke had another question for you: "At one point The Meritocracy suddenly got a lot of exposure, which lead to it becoming a kind of who's who of NS, with well known people from elsewhere in NS joining up. How did this change the region?"
<Thomasia> Truth is, I was there early and had some fun. What I liked about it was the world was open.
<@Eluvatar> What do you remember of the Meritocratic discussion regarding the UPS Rail / Great Bight crisis in TNP?
<Thomasia> To Ananke, it did change markedly.
<Thomasia> What happened was we let lefties inside.
<Thomasia> It was a big stink actually to decide to let people who were markedly non-libertarian inside. We had always been an amalgam of conservatives, anarchists, and libertarians with one Canadian moderate.
<Thomasia> But, as we shifted into RP mode, we realized it didn't really matter so much, but it was an issue. I recall being against letting them in at the time. Cortath was my nemesis.
<@Eluvatar> To what extent do you think there was (or is) correlation between RL Left/Right and in game Liberator/Raider alignment?
<Thomasia> I had an extended lapse from active play at the time those things were happening in TNP so I don't recall much.
<ElFijiGrande> That's a very interesting question, Eluvatar.
<Thomasia> Eluvatar, I found as time went by that younger players were more attracted to attacking, more than left/right thinkers.
<Thomasia> If I was hedging, I'd say I met more lefties who were attackers, but it's not strong enough for me to say there is a correlation.
<@Unibot> That's interesting.
<Thomasia> One odd thing I did notice was as time went by, more defenders took on an attacking posture. Probably because they wanted something new.
<Thomasia> Back then, the buzz was always about when NS2 would arrive so we could fight wars.
<Rach> Would you say that more left or right wingers play NS?
<Rach> or played back then
<Thomasia> More left. But that's probably because it was a crowd of college kids who first latched on.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> Which was why the Met became isolationist. Because college kids are dumb. j/k
* @Unibot chuckles.
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<Thomasia> We did imagine a NS though much more as a federal structure in the beginning though.
<Thomasia> Nations felt more like states and so the fights at the federal level, or the UN, were much more heated.
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* HenrikJensen|SEM is now known as Sem
<Thomasia> But I suppose it's fair to say the imagination of the players outpaced the growth of the game, and so we went many different ways. Which you all continue today, remarkably.
* Jeck is now known as JeckOff
* TomPrescott|YTT is now known as Yttribia
* @Unibot nods.
<@Unibot> From what I understand, ADN's relationship was quite close with The Met. How did this come about?
<Thomasia> Cortath. He brought those connections forward.
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<@Unibot> Why would he be able to bring ADN and the Met close, but not RLA and the Met close though?
<Thomasia> You should interview him, if you can, actually. He was doing a ton of the dirty spy work for a few organizations.
<@Unibot> Oh yes, I've talked to him lots. I just never considered him the glue between the two.
<Thomasia> I think that was just a matter of the shifting dynamics of the Senate.
<Thomasia> If memory serves, anyway.
<Thomasia> Memory may not.
<@Unibot> I was kind of hinting at Unistrut.
<Thomasia> I was never close to Unistrut, but I know he was involved.
<@Unibot> Seemed to be a big player in the Met. But I can only infer from outsider research.
<Thomasia> One thing was, amongst those of us who had been there a long time, was there were a number of personal irl relationships that formed.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> So, for better or worse, lots of the things you saw were hatched from outside chats.
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<Thomasia> There were cliques within the Senate that I was not part of, and that's okay.
<@Unibot> Happens all the time, everywhere, in many respects. *nods*
<Thomasia> Unistrut was dominant at the time of one of my famous departures.
<Thomasia> If I had my own alliance, it probably should have been called ADD.
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<@Eluvatar> ADD?
<Thomasia> attention deficit disorder.
* @Unibot chuckles.
<Thomasia> I used to play really hard. Many hours per day, and then I'd burn out.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> It was one reason I accepted not trying to run things. I liked to cause more chaos than anything by the end, so my returns of which there were several were seen as both sources of delight and trembling.
<Thomasia> I did cause a civil war or two in RP, after all.
<Thomasia> But that was for fun. The Met was occasionally guilty of being too stodgy, and so some of us tried to counter that.
<Thomasia> I'm aware it became the Who's Who's club, but we wanted it to stay fun also.
<ElFijiGrande> Gentlemen. This has been very interesting. Unfortunately, I must go. Perhaps I'll see you again later in the fair.
* @Unibot waves
<Thomasia> A pleasure.
<@Unibot> You have a good one.
<ElFijiGrande> Thank you for time, Thomasia.
<Thomasia> Happy Holidays
<Thomasia> Any other questions?
<@Unibot> You say that there wasn't a war mechanism.
<@Unibot> But we often consider, nowadays, the NPO battle with the ADN as a war.
<Thomasia> In the beginning, there wasn't.
<@Unibot> Do you see it that way?
<@Unibot> (There still isn't a mechanism for it)
<Thomasia> Well, let's put it differently. Back in the beginning, many of us imagined the national stats would eventually be used in some formula to conduct war.
* @Unibot nods.
<@Unibot> Yep.
<Thomasia> In fact, we made a dummy war simulator in the Met if memory served.
<Thomasia> Winnipeg and Jasque did great work on that.
<@Unibot> And a stats simulator which has had its code used ever since
<@Unibot> In about half a dozen other calculators.
<Thomasia> It was just for fun, but we collected a bunch of really old really big states anticipating that one day, we might impose certain values...
<Thomasia> Thomasia was a beast by then, statistically speaking.
<Thomasia> But the game never went that direction. I sort of wish it would have though. It wouldn't have lasted as long, but we had some interesting plans.
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<@Unibot> What was your relationship with the NPO-ADN conflict, then?
<@Unibot> It's kind of hard to tell from your writings; you seemed to reject both sides.
<Thomasia> I did, mostly.
<Thomasia> I wanted a more meaningful means of attack than just stealing delegacies.
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<Thomasia> I think that was about the time that the Met really withdrew from the world at large, but we had our reasons why.
<Thomasia> Truth is, we had a much more immersive game experience.
<@Unibot> Haha, it's funny because nowadays players tend to glamourize the old ADN-NPO war.
<Thomasia> I know some would argue against that, but what we were trying to do was create something more.
<Kiptoke-Ruselia> Hello everybody!
<Thomasia> Hi!
<Thomasia> I'm sure they did.
<@Unibot> As being a conflict based on politics and engaging in war through propaganda.
* @Unibot nods.
<@Unibot> Hi Kiptoke-Ruselia!
<Thomasia> Well, back then, the whole ideas of invaders and defenders as proxy war were still being flushed out.
<Thomasia> So, propaganda really did matter more, now that I think about it.
<@Unibot> Are you suggesting more of a pairing of roleplay and gameplay as a grand vision?
<Thomasia> I think that's what would work best.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> NS is a pretty scant engine, to be honest.
<Thomasia> But where players took it was interesting and unexpected to me.
<@Unibot> I often have had the same thoughts on the matter, myself.
<@Unibot> But I think we've gone in the opposite direction even more.
<Thomasia> A few of us toyed with the idea of creating something that captured the charm of NS but we never got far enough.
<Thomasia> Politizens.
<Thomasia> Well, people want tangible outcomes.
<@Unibot> Hah, I like the name.
<Thomasia> RP doesn't really allow for that. People want to win or lose.
<Thomasia> Thanks.
<Thomasia> My name, but it took our team weeks to come up with that.
<Thomasia> Anyway, it didn't go anywhere, but I still think there's something there with the right people.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> I think what NS needs is a way to shift away from regions and have nations have impactful alliances between them.
<@Unibot> I'm curious if you'd to share some old locker-room stories from The Meritocracy?
<Thomasia> it would change things, which is what this game thrives upon.
<Thomasia> (laughs)
<@Unibot> I'm sure there's some politics internally that we might find assuming.
<Thomasia> Okay, so it ran on a triumvirate between Justin (Eureka), Robin (Winnipeg), and myself (my name is Tom, irl)
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia> And we used to get together in chat and talk about how we could irritate the new players into doing things they didn't want.
<@Unibot>
<Thomasia> So, sometimes, that meant bringing new regions into contact with us.
<Thomasia> Sometimes, that was being fun in RP and proposing difficult things.
<Thomasia> But we did it all for fun.
<Thomasia> Actually, Justin almost moved out here to the US. He and I talked about starting a settlement in a rural area for real.
<@Unibot> Wow.
<Thomasia> Some of us in the Met were highly political in real life. I've been a candidate for office, for instance.
<Rach> Would you guys have a name for that settlement?
<@Unibot> "The Met 2.0"
* Sevway is now known as Sev
<@Unibot> Funny, you suggested the Met was largely right or centre; I had always assumed Winni was left given he flies a communist flag now.
* Thomasia_ has joined #auditorium_one
<Thomasia_> sorry about the interruption.
<Thomasia_> My router jumps out.
<Thomasia_> Anyway, many of us really are and were libertarians, and the idea of forming communities in real life with people who we knew so well came close to happening.
<Thomasia_> So, in one sense, NationStates was very real.
* Thomasia Quit (Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
<Thomasia_> Hm.
<@Unibot> No worries about the interruption.
<Thomasia_> As far as other stories in game, they were just silly inside jokes mostly.
<Thomasia_> We did have a secret society within the Met though, called The Optimates.
<@Unibot> Hah.
<Thomasia_> Of course, it became more of a political faction when certain people blabbed about it to others.
<Thomasia_> Interventionists, mostly.
* YuikoShirane|MZY is now known as Mirane
<Thomasia_> But I suppose my tenure with NS ended when I decided if I put as much effort into real politics, I wondered what I could accomplish.
<Thomasia_> And that's the funny thing and I'll end with this:
<Thomasia_> I actually used my accomplishments within NS to help get myself the job as a state coordinator for a US presidential campaign.
<@Unibot> Wow.
<Thomasia_> Now that I think about it, it was a bit ridiculous, but I said that if I could make myself one of the most important people in a game with 100,000 people, this would be easy.
* @Unibot nods.
<Thomasia_> And I got myself fired for calling the campaign manager a cheap a-hole.
<@Unibot> Haha.
<Thomasia_> But I was right about that, and my "voluntary" resignation taught me one of the golden rules of politics.
<Thomasia_> Never put anything in writing.
<Thomasia_> lol
<Thomasia_> Okay, it's been fun and good memories. Thanks for hosting me.
<@Unibot> Thank you so much for joining us, Thomasia. It's been an honour and a pleasure.
<Thomasia_> Likewise, good night.
