[DISCUSSION] How to Proceed with Media?

[Deadeye Jack]

For the record, because I know I'm one such person you're referring to, Jack, how am I not being open to compromise? I have actively been pursuing a compromise.

While some are quick to say that TRT would die without the government, I wonder if the government is confident enough to test that theory in a wager (with fair terms) which would decide how we all proceed with this? Because talk is cheap. And lying through your teeth is worthless.

What compromise have you posed that is relevant to the discussion we're having right now? What you've mainly been seeking is less and less oversight or full on independence that could result in unsuitable accountability to the region. The context of the discussion this thread is having is I currently have not assigned a Media Officer because in our 4 officer spots I felt that given the crop of elected officers they were better assigned to other portfolios that they were passionate about and focused on. So basically I opened this thread to discuss how this could become a more regular occurrence in the region as other departments take on a life of their own and grow. So really the discussion ongoing is are we going to make Media a sub portfolio of another Officer wherein they will appoint an un-elected Deputy Officer to run it in their stead or are we going to come up with a more permanent solution where we have a long-serving Media head that is accountable to the region and The Assembly in some way.

[thechurchofsatan]

For the record, because I know I'm one such person you're referring to, Jack, how am I not being open to compromise? I have actively been pursuing a compromise.

While some are quick to say that TRT would die without the government, I wonder if the government is confident enough to test that theory in a wager (with fair terms) which would decide how we all proceed with this? Because talk is cheap. And lying through your teeth is worthless.

What compromise have you posed that is relevant to the discussion we're having right now? What you've mainly been seeking is less and less oversight or full on independence that could result in unsuitable accountability to the region. The context of the discussion this thread is having is I currently have not assigned a Media Officer because in our 4 officer spots I felt that given the crop of elected officers they were better assigned to other portfolios that they were passionate about and focused on. So basically I opened this thread to discuss how this could become a more regular occurrence in the region as other departments take on a life of their own and grow. So really the discussion ongoing is are we going to make Media a sub portfolio of another Officer wherein they will appoint an un-elected Deputy Officer to run it in their stead or are we going to come up with a more permanent solution where we have a long-serving Media head that is accountable to the region and The Assembly in some way.

And through the bylaws I drafted I have sought to codify the balance that has been respected over the years. If you think that it hasn't gone far enough I'd be more than happy to work with you to flesh out something that holds the Editor-in-Chief more directly accountable. But you have to work with me on it. I want to work this out. If you'd like to move the thread for the bylaws to the assembly I'd be fine with it. In truth I didn't consider how the Editor-in-Chief might be held accountable outside of TRT's staff. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

[Guy]

You’re playing this through multiple avenues with some information being posted privately, trying to set this up antagonistically as a TRT vs The Government thing, refusing to engage with various ideas that were floated, accusing people of “lying through their teeth”, trying to set-up wagers rather than doing what would be best for the region…

Frankly I don’t care to engage with this discussion anymore. It’s not worth trying to attain consensus over a government structure when it just leads to antagonism. Jack should decide on whatever structure he thinks would work best. Onwards and upwards for TRT.

[Nequedum]

I'm just really struggling to understand why people want to have citizens vote for the EIC but not have a 5th officer? What would be the difference? What's the ulterior motive to this? Would the EIC hence have less authority than an officer? That's just not right. If we want to have a citizenry-elected EIC, keep the current system for the EIC as is (deputy officer) and just elect a Media Officer on top of the other 4 current officers.

[Manson]

This is stupid.

Let's stop making a mountain out of a molehill and either do nothing or let Jack decide unless we do legislate something.

[Guy]

I'm just really struggling to understand why people want to have citizens vote for the EIC but not have a 5th officer? What would be the difference? What's the ulterior motive to this? Would the EIC hence have less authority than an officer? That's just not right. If we want to have a citizenry-elected EIC, keep the current system for the EIC as is (deputy officer) and just elect a Media Officer on top of the other 4 current officers.

I think the advantages for a separately-elected editor-in-chief are that:

1) It's a specialised position, with its own skill-set that is somewhat different from general Officer duties, which are about advancing the government's policies

2) If we're trying to put together a governance structure for TRT, the knowledge that there'll always be an EIC (unlike Media Officer) means you can build the structure around it

3) It gives us flexibility with the term (e.g. going for 6 months, as some have suggested, or even indefinite) and procedure (e.g. involving both citizenry and TRT staff in the process).

[Nequedum]

I'd be happy with an EIC like that if it's also treated like an officer; given the same permissions and perks as the Media Officer was, and assigned the role gameside.

I'd also prefer if then renamed what we currently use EIC for so that current role could be used like a deputy officer (and masked as such on discord) and support the EIC. I do think TRT Staff should also vote in this new position under the EIC.

[thechurchofsatan]

You’re playing this through multiple avenues with some information being posted privately, trying to set this up antagonistically as a TRT vs The Government thing, refusing to engage with various ideas that were floated, accusing people of “lying through their teeth”, trying to set-up wagers rather than doing what would be best for the region…

Frankly I don’t care to engage with this discussion anymore. It’s not worth trying to attain consensus over a government structure when it just leads to antagonism. Jack should decide on whatever structure he thinks would work best. Onwards and upwards for TRT.

It was antagonistic the moment the staff of TRT was completely disregarded as a legitimate voice in the decision for who would lead them without a Media Officer. And yes some people are lying through their teeth because the notion that TRT is inept without the government is unproven, a lie until proven otherwise. If the people making that claim aren't confident enough to put it to the test, to put TRT to the test then they must know they're being untruthful.

Guy, you know all too well that politics is inherently antagonistic. And that's what this unilateral government control over TRT will inevitably bring to TRT; politics. But TRT is fundamentally different from the executive government and the Assembly. It is inherently apolitical and it should remain that way.

[Spartan Termopylae]

You’re playing this through multiple avenues with some information being posted privately, trying to set this up antagonistically as a TRT vs The Government thing, refusing to engage with various ideas that were floated, accusing people of “lying through their teeth”, trying to set-up wagers rather than doing what would be best for the region…

Frankly I don’t care to engage with this discussion anymore. It’s not worth trying to attain consensus over a government structure when it just leads to antagonism. Jack should decide on whatever structure he thinks would work best. Onwards and upwards for TRT.

It was antagonistic the moment the staff of TRT was completely disregarded as a legitimate voice in the decision for who would lead them without a Media Officer. And yes some people are lying through their teeth because the notion that TRT is inept without the government is unproven, a lie until proven otherwise. If the people making that claim aren't confident enough to put it to the test, to put TRT to the test then they must know they're being untruthful.

Guy, you know all too well that politics is inherently antagonistic. And that's what this unilateral government control over TRT will inevitably bring to TRT; politics. But TRT is fundamentally different from the executive government and the Assembly. It is inherently apolitical and it should remain that way.

Who has been telling the lies you are talking about?

[thechurchofsatan]

I could ask you the same thing. Do you realize how much arrogance and disrespect goes into claiming that TRT can't function without the government? It's clear now more than ever that even after all the work it's done, despite all its success TRT still has something to prove.

[Spartan Termopylae]

Sorry? Who had claimed it can't function without the government?

[thechurchofsatan]

Sorry? Who had claimed it can't function without the government?

The government and assembly do give TRT life, so TRT should be at its whim.

I don't think that having an anarchy of staff to self-manage would be advisable, as it would just create chaos and a lack of directional leadership.

It's also been said repeatedly on discord.

Having thought it over since last night I could get behind assembly confirmation only if TRT staff were responsible for the nomination, as was suggested early on. However the process for nomination I feel should be left to TRT staff.

[Spartan Termopylae]

Quick question. Do you propose that the times it's run as you've stated above, or media on the whole?

[thechurchofsatan]

Quick question. Do you propose that the times it's run as you've stated above, or media on the whole?

I think you've made a typo. So the meaning of your question is unclear. Could you please correct that?

[Spartan Termopylae]

Its should have been is. Are you saying that just the times is to be run in this manner, or the whole media department?

[thechurchofsatan]

Its should have been is. Are you saying that just the times is to be run in this manner, or the whole media department?

I wouldn't want to ignore Rejected Radio, assuming anyone ever decides to give it another go (editing it was a nightmare for me) but as far as the entire department versus just TRT I don't favor either one over the other.

[Gorundu]

It was antagonistic the moment the staff of TRT was completely disregarded as a legitimate voice in the decision for who would lead them without a Media Officer.

I don't think any TRT staff has asked you to speak for them, except maybe Neq.

[thechurchofsatan]

I don't think any TRT staff has asked you to speak for them, except maybe Neq.

True but I'm also a veteran writer for TRT in good standing. I've done enough for TRT that I've earned the right to speak to its interests and its future. Then again I am not the only one with such a right and we need not have the same opinions. Differing opinions in TRT is a valuable part of how it works.

[thechurchofsatan]

Okay first, sorry for double-posting.

Second, I've worked on this all day and I'm making some concessions here that I was initially opposed to. I hope some of you can appreciate them. I've edited my draft of the bylaws, split it up into three pieces of legislation (yes, I said legislation). I'm willing (in truth a bit begrudgingly) to have all of it go through the Assembly. If I want anything done in good faith here I'm going to have to trust that the Assembly won't tamper with them with bad intentions in mind. I hope I'm making the right decision here. Just give me a moment to post the thread for the Assembly's consideration.

[The Grim Reaper]

Guy, you know all too well that politics is inherently antagonistic. And that's what this unilateral government control over TRT will inevitably bring to TRT; politics. But TRT is fundamentally different from the executive government and the Assembly. It is inherently apolitical and it should remain that way.

For the record i respectfully disagree with the notion that TRT and editorial independence go hand-in-hand with apoliticism because in his time with the TRT a former Editor-in-Chief explicitly approached me for spec-work. Also in issue LII the TRT published a feature arguing for a WA Officer - which, ironically, led to the current kerfluffle.

Also issue XLVII included an article calling people who opposed your commendation "cranks and zealots" - you were the Editor-in-Chief at the time.

[The Grim Reaper]

Constituting Act of The Rejected Realms Media Corporation

1. The Rejected Realms Media Corporation is the organization constituted by The Rejected Realms for the purpose of exercising editorial independence.
2. The Rejected Realms Media Corporation is permitted to utilize the platforms of the Rejected Realms to carry out its operations and elections.
3. The Delegate of The Rejected Realms must appoint an Editor-in-Chief when the position is vacant.
4. Members of The Rejected Realms Media Corporation may challenge the Editor-in-Chief, as if the Members were the Assembly, in the manner prescribed for an Officer of the Rejected Realms.
5. The Assembly of The Rejected Realms may vacate the Editor-in-Chief by majority vote.
6. The Editor-in-Chief is responsible for maintaining The Rejected Realms Media Corporation's editorial independence and the authoritative record of Members of The Rejected Realms Media Corporation, in regards to which they may add or remove any current Citizen with their consent, or unilaterally remove any non-Citizen.
7. Publications by The Rejected Realms Media Corporation credited to someone who is not a citizen of The Rejected Realms at time of publication must have a credit that indicates they are a Guest of The Rejected Realms Media Corporation.

this is my proposal

[Cove]

Since discussion has moved to another thread, I shall be archiving this thread if there is no objection within 72 hours.

[wabbitslayah]

I say make TRT full gov controlled and recreate the TRR Post as the Independent news.