Westwind and The Crimson Order

[thechurchofsatan]

Information will be here shortly!

[Manson]

Westwind might sign into his forum account here and post in this thread. All we can do is wait with our fingers crossed!

[Manson]

Westwind just sent us this:

Gatesville's support was needed for the path we ended up taking, I needed their endorsements to secure TNP. The Fee for Gatesville's support was a No vote against UN/WA Resolutions. I was already inclined to vote against most resolutions, so that was easy. (The UN became the WA during my Delegacy) I seem to recall Gatesville having some conditions in regards to others we were working with, but I can't recall specifically. There was a lot of negotiation, a lot of back and forth to arrange the cooperation we needed.

Region A wants everyone to have Policy Z
Region B will accept Policy Z, if Region A will endorse their ally Region C

And so on, and so forth for weeks. I didn't think we'd get there, some of the conditions being requested were frivolous, and some probably purposely difficult.

And we needed to advance arrangements for each possible plan as far as possible before a decision point would come. And do that without letting the right hand know what the left toe was doing to keep it from unraveling.

Appearances had to be maintained.

Creating a new multi-regional organization, whether it was lead by ADN or The Crimson Order, whether it was Defender or Raider or Hybrid....the new dynamic was the goal to renew activity. The depth of negotiations were required to create that organization as The Crimson Order, an alliance of regions led by The Crimson King, Delegate of The North Pacific and King of Equilism. The CO was Equilism and TNP, and Gatesville, and The Last Kingdom and others.

The state of NS was inactive. Influence had diminished Gameplay. Max was absent and high on NS2. Mods might take a month to reply to a nation restoration request. And the number of nations was declining. There had been the Neutral Territory Conference in early 2007 with 150 participating regions where many ideas to bring new activity to the game were discussed, and many dismissed. But there were useful ideas, and some were pursued to one degree or another of success. The Deadwood Region proposals, The Destroyers proposals, and the concept that NS needed a 'bad guy' to rally against.

I'd done that during 'The Schism' in Equilism, so I knew how to play the bad guy, I just needed a GCR to do it with. I was already King of Equilism so the Monarchist theme would carry over into The Crimson Order.

I helped Monte Ozarka a bit on writing the Constitution that eventually passed by one vote in TNP (Grosse casting the deciding vote). I then ran for Delegate, with John Ashcroft Land as my opponent, and won the election.

So then I needed to be provocative while still working towards all options. Things like appointing Blue Wolf to my cabinet, a move defenders didn't like, was provocative. It was seen as a sign I was moving to change TNP Raider. Defenders didn't like it, and raiders were ready to support it. Instant dichotomy.

When I announced ending The North Pacific Army for a new army, everyone automatically assumed it would be Raider. Not once did I say I was going to do that, it was always presumed. If the forum admin had cooperated and renamed it for me, I could have used it to usher in the new ADN, or a hybrid military.

So that was the decision point that ended the ADN option. Grosse and Flem's Admin actions/inactions made the decision. The political maneuvering to stop me from changing the name, was the final trigger, to abandon both the constitution and the forum. Before that point, the constitution was still safe on the new forum. If he'd have listened to me, talked to me, cooperated with me, it would have all been different.

But it wasn't.

Oh...side thought, I had also established ADN in NS2 at the same time, so I was ready to marry NS1 ADN and NS2 ADN as part of the package, One ADN forum for Both NS.....One ADN forum to Rule Them All!

Things happened quickly once the decision points were reached. I think the only delay was reworking the new forums and throwing together a last minute new Charter. It was based on the Imperial Equilism Charter from The Schism which was based on an ADN Charter proposal Equilism had made (failed and we had ADN:DSA instead), which itself was based on the A.L.L. Charter of which both Equilism and The North Pacific were members. Can't find fault in it's heritage, *chuckles*

A.L.L. lead the Puppetmaster liberation of TNP from Great Bight.

The whole point was to create Gameplay activity that was missing from the game. Gotta work to get a reaction, then respond accordingly to increase the tension and move the game forward.

We did not have a specific flag, although there were some simple graphics made for The Crimson Order forum. We respected our regional members, so each member region's flag is it's own. I think I added a gold edge to the TNP Flag.

I appointed Chaucerin as Steward of Equilism to rule there while I was TNP Delegate as we wanted to maintain the independent identity of each Crimson Order member region.

-----------
I started with Great Bights Mum as my Vice, and I let her know what I was about to do before I switched forums. So she wasn't entirely blindsided. She asked me not to banject her, she didn't want to lose her rankings. And I didn't. And when it was over and I dropped my WA, Great Bights Mum sent me a telegram and thanked me for dropping so she didn't have to banject me either.

Nastic?

February 9, 2008:
"I have Nastic on board - I will name him Vice Delegate."
"Also.....the allies are restless, so the timetable is advanced."

February 10, 2008:
"As we reach the first 24 hours, all has gone well.
The region is secured, the RMB controlled, the new forum established and active - same for new IRC channel.
Tribunals have begun for the beauracrats.
An update statement has been posted in all TNP Embassies.
An Equilism/TNP Mutual Defense agreement is in draft.
A Valentine's Ball is planned for TNP.
The GiE has named GBM the 'interim' Delegate. She has been swapping and is up to 235.
Nastic as Vice Delegate is up to 154."

[Westwind]

*tips hat*

From the dusty tomes of The Crimson Order, never opened since 2008....

February 12, 2008:

New Districts and Governorships set in place. The Districts honor old TNP defenders.

Blackshear, Ananke, Free4All, Nastic, Twoslit

The TNP University is under development, HEM named Chancellor.
Telegram campaign being organized.
RMB continues under control.
TLK sending a few nations into TNP.
Fox Rite want formal relations.

L&C - 321
GBM - 251

Haor Chall:

Hey,
Well done.
At last Gatesville are finally support someone capable.
Good luck.

HC

And now......the bad news.

NK will be departing, leaving NS gameplay, back to NSG in his original non-gameplay home region. He's said that I'm the 'best boss he's ever worked for, the only one that's ever done anything.' But, he feels it's his time. Don't let him know you are aware of it. Let him tie up his loose ends and depart in his own fashion.

-----------------

[Manson]

*tips hat*

From the dusty tomes of The Crimson Order, never opened since 2008....

February 12, 2008:

New Districts and Governorships set in place. The Districts honor old TNP defenders.

Blackshear, Ananke, Free4All, Nastic, Twoslit

The TNP University is under development, HEM named Chancellor.
Telegram campaign being organized.
RMB continues under control.
TLK sending a few nations into TNP.
Fox Rite want formal relations.

L&C - 321
GBM - 251

Haor Chall:

Hey,
Well done.
At last Gatesville are finally support someone capable.
Good luck.

HC

And now......the bad news.

NK will be departing, leaving NS gameplay, back to NSG in his original non-gameplay home region. He's said that I'm the 'best boss he's ever worked for, the only one that's ever done anything.' But, he feels it's his time. Don't let him know you are aware of it. Let him tie up his loose ends and depart in his own fashion.

-----------------

Thanks for the cool information, Westwind!

Did any prominent TNPers at the time recognize the Crimson Order as legitimate?

[Westwind]

Did any prominent TNPers at the time recognize the Crimson Order as legitimate?

Not that I can recall, I was the big bad guy from The Schism in Equilism that turned Equilism away from pure Defenderism. The truth of The Schism being carried out cooperatively by both 'sides' in that conflict to create activity to save Equilism was largely unknown at that time.

Oh, there were friendly messages behind the scenes. Most players are able to maintain good player-to-player relations regardless of ingame opposition, and most understand a persona to play a part, but that seems to have become less the case over time.

But there were some....even among those I'd informed of the true nature of The Schism before it happened....that still to this day condemn me for The Schism - which is why it was important to point out the nature of The Schism in my SC Commendation. ADN leadership was informed of the nature of the operation, and nonetheless some who knew still condemn me and restricted me from ADN. And yet Director Pope Hope had given the alliancedefense.net domain to me.

Sir Lans and Flem both condemned me repeatedly for 'ruining the game', publicly and privately. It was hateful and ridiculous. Flem was slanderous IMO. He never apologized and I've stayed away from TNP ever since because of him. Yes, that still irks me that much. Keep Flem away from me. He's the only player I feel that way about. Sad. I'm constantly insulted by Astarial's nation's pre-title.

2/10/2008

....just Sir Lans and Flem telling people that I'm killing the game. Interesting that they think one person has that much power over a game.

Taijitu has been curious, with an influx of them on the new TNP IRC channel. Apparently first thing Flem did is go to them.

Had a long talk with GBM, she thinks it'll be fun. So all is well OOC with her.

[Manson]

Snip

That's... Interesting to say the least. Who was in your cabinet? I'm aware that NK, Dali, and JAL/Durk were. Just wondering if there was anybody unusual in it. For example, Codger was a Regional Officer during the NLO I believe.

Here's a few general questions:

1. How long did you stay in power?
2. Did The Crimson Order have a different flag?
3. Are The Crimson Order's forums still alive? Hopefully they were Proboards because Tapatalk decided to destroy Zetaboards.
4. What exactly were you going to change the NPA's name to? Are you aware that today they are in fact, independent/bi-gameplayer?
5. Is Lewis and Clark (the nation) on TNP's banlist?

[Westwind]

My Delegacy lasted 93 days, I was elected to a three month term. I took the Delegacy on my birthday (January 22nd - a nice bday present) having been elected in December. So I met my Constitutional term of office as Delegate. I have a screen shot from the final day. (and from the first day for that matter)

I do not recall a separate Crimson Order flag, NS regional flags were not an NS feature yet. although there were some graphics created for the Crimson Order forum. The 'eyes' that I often used (and still use sometimes) on my nation's flags were associated with the Crimson Order.

I last looked at the Crimson Order forum a year or two ago,and at the moment I can't find the link....but I'm sure it was Zetaboards and consumed by the Tapatalk destruction. So many links I have to old forums that I can no longer read. It sucks. Tapatalk should be labeled Forum Destroyers. There wasn't much there though. Somewhere I have the database backup files for the TNP Crimson forums too, which was on a private IPB board on it's own domain.

TWP Delegate TAO was sad those TNP forums ended, he enjoyed the Arcade games we had.

If the TNP forum admins had cooperated with the NPA name change, I would have opened it up to the soldiers to nominate and vote on a new name. I wasn't imposing a name. It just needed a reason to be active again and needed 'a fresh coat of paint'. It needed to stop living in the pre-Influence world and adjust to the new mechanics.

And yes, I'm pleased that TNP found it's way to Independent Gameplay. But they took too long clinging to the past rather than adjusting to the state of the game and new player generations (as most regions did.....they went inactive instead of adjusting). Years later as TWP Delegate, I had no problem working well with TNP and it's military. I also served as TWP Ambassador to TNP at the time.

Lewis and Clark was never banned, and there was no charges ever brought against me. I moved Lewis and Clark to TNP for a few months last year since it was the 10th anniversary.....seemed no one noticed.

Now that I think about it, I did serve as Deputy Speaker for a time in TNP sometime after the Crimson Order. I think Dalimbar was Delegate again at that time....either that, or he was Speaker and I was backing him up. It was brief.

Let's see.....cabinet members.....those you listed are correct. There were several that were prominent players using an anonymous nation names. Those have never been revealed that I know of. I'll name a couple for you: Former Equilism and TWP Minister of Defense Zorn was Lord Governor General Grimlock. Another another one ....I can't recall what name he used, was Ivan Moldavi/Pierconium. Ivan expected me to be a permanent Delegate, which was never my intent.

Biyah was also involved (pretty much consider the entire Empire was my cabinet before they were the Empire) Whamabama was learning the ropes of Intelligence with the Crimson Order.

Felasia was involved, former TRR Delegate/Kandarin holder Naivetry was involved. (And I was in contact with Kandarin at the time concerning the inactivity in TEP)

Had some folks from the region Canada helping hold the fort in Equilism.

Many folks involved from diverse places.

Sir Lans and Flem both condemned me repeatedly for 'ruining the game', publicly and privately.

A pm I recieved from Sir Lans:

Thanx WW for removing me as military Liason...not sure what happened to you, but have fun with TLK....and thanx for killing this game and your ideals. (Sorry for the lack of big words)

Sedge:

<Sedge> The FRA views Lewis and Clark as an invader
<Felasia> and?
<Sedge> and as such, will be taking standard action when a region is invaded

I'm still waiting 11 years later for defenders to explain how an elected GCR Delegate is an Invader. Defenders threw out the rule book to oppose me.

The early coalition against the Crimson Order:

A very curious conglomerate of opposition has entered TNP and is endorsing GBM...

00000 A World Power (FRA region)
Illuminati
Catlantopia
The Pacific (two nations)
Jolly Roger

Note they claim GBM was elected Vice Delegate, which isnt' true.
Note that z13 has re-established NPA...defenders....yet has strong raider support...and there is a nation flying the NPO flag supporting GBM.

And we thought my coalition was odd.

[thechurchofsatan]

When did planning for The Crimson Order begin?
When you first started looking for supporters how did you know who you could trust to keep their mouth shut?
Was there anyone you took a gamble on bringing "into the fold"?
If the transition from the government you sought to replace to that of The Crimson Order had been successful, what did you intend to do to revitalize activity? Bar those who'd stifled activity from returning to positions of power? Try new initiatives to encourage activity?

[Manson]

Wow!

I really don't have much to say to that.

Well, here are a few more questions:

1. How would you say defenderism overall affected your Delegacy?
2. As King of The Crimson Order, who would you say helped you the most?
3. If you were to stay Delegate, did you have a successor or heir you wanted to become Delegate after you?
4. If you could change anything about TCO, what would it be?
5. How did you make the transition from TNP to TWP?
6. Do you think TNP would accept you as a citizen if you moved back and applied with Lewis and Clark?
7. Favorite moment from TCO?
8. How did TCO interact with TRR?
9. Could you name a few of the most prominent opposition members?
10. How would you say TCO impacted future TNP?
11. Did anyone convince you to establish TCO or kind of nudge you or was it all you?
12. Least favorite moment from TCO?
13. In the end, how did you lose the Delegacy?
14. Did any other GCRs or popular UCRs recognize TCO as legitimate?
15. Did you learn any lessons from TCO?

[Westwind]

Phew! So many questions!

When did planning for The Crimson Order begin?

I suppose it was basically coming together out of the Neutral Territory Conference in January '07. (The Schism in Equilism was the end of '06 after Influence was imposed....Equilism reunified on January 1st '07) I was the only one willing to play 'the lead bad guy', while others were eager to support a bad guy.

TNP/TSP/TEP were all inactive and were considered for the plans. But TSP was dropped early on as they had no joy in their souls with their isolationism. (they came late to the Neutral Territory Conference to say 'how dare you!' to everyone considering all possibilities to increase activity in NS.) TP as always locks itself down too tight to allow activity, and TWP was the innovator of the day and didn't need help. Laz and TRR were not considered, they were Feeder based plans. That left TNP and TEP.

My WA was in TEP before running for Delegate in TNP, as I positioned myself, as did Todd McCloud and Dalimbar for the TEP Delegacy. Todd was still a raider then, and was ambitious. He matured nicely since then and has served TEP very well.

When you first started looking for supporters how did you know who you could trust to keep their mouth shut?
Was there anyone you took a gamble on bringing "into the fold"?

Those in Equilism and I had just carried out The Schism, we had no leaks, so we already worked together well and had unbroken trust among us. Supporters from elsewhere approached me. Some I did not follow through with....some were talking to me about moving forward with my Destroyers concept (which was almost exactly the same as TAO's Deadwood concept). Some raiders went ahead with that without me. I remember getting a tg pointing out a series of raids to me "We're doing it!" Doing what? "Your Destroyers plan!" *chuckles*

Everyone that was brought in was a gamble. The entire thing should never have worked, but somehow we managed.

I had taken a gamble with The Schism and I expected to be permanently kicked out of Equilism and be unwelcome across NS. So I was already prepared to leave NS. Thus I was free to take those risks again with the Crimson Order. I'd already done everything else except be a GCR Delegate, and that's the only thing that still interested me in NS. I like being a Delegate and serving a region. It's where I'm most comfortable.

Since my TWP Delegacy, I've had the opportunity to serve as Delegate of Christmas and Equilism.

If the transition from the government you sought to replace to that of The Crimson Order had been successful, what did you intend to do to revitalize activity? Bar those who'd stifled activity from returning to positions of power? Try new initiatives to encourage activity?

I'm not sure how to answer that. We did replace the government, it just didn't last as I couldn't maintain enough Influence long enough to hold the Delegacy. Influence killed The Crimson Order....but that was lead by RL events. And while I offered a legislative body to the region, no one signed up for it. The opposition claimed it couldn't do anything, and I told them, 'how do you know if you won't try?"

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

In RL, my health was declining and my new business was crashing with the economy as the Great Reccession set in. I lost internet, had notes on my door warning my power was going to be shut off, foreclosure was close and I couldn't make ends meet. I remember trying to make $30 of food last a month, and letting my car coast from home to my office via back streets because I was running on Empty. While Daycare for my daughter needed to be paid. I was only making $100/month (nope, there's no zeros missing there)

I had to go to my office every night at major update so I could be online to banject a few folks to protect the Delegacy every night.

It was a bad time, while I watch Flem posting tales on the RMB of me being a homosexual genocidal psychopath. Yeah, that was real cute, eh Flem? (Like I said, keep him far away from me. Never want to see or hear him ever again. )

If those RL events were not going on, I could have ensured activity made progress. Instead, everyone sat around and waited for me to do something. I did what I could.

I would say that too many were in it for the show, not the results. Folks wanted the conflict, both sides wanted it.

1. How would you say defenderism overall affected your Delegacy?

Well, my Delegacy drove them to work with Raiders and Invade a sovereign GCR, and in the end, they won. I think it's probably more important to consider what my Delegacy drove defenders to do.

Elu has pm'd me occasionally about code issues over the years (which is odd to me, I don't code as I've told him), and he's always very cautious in his wording. He never trusted me afterwards. But he was the Unelected one that stole the Delegacy from me while.....

......while Flem and GBM were negotiating the end of my Delegacy with me on the NPO forum. As far as I'm concerned, they did not negotiate in good faith. I did and was preparing to leave.

They've never said a single word to me since, other than the message from GBM I posted earlier, and Elu when he wants help with something.

Defenders' behavior lost all my respect. Every bit.

Not that it matters, I lost theirs too. *chuckles*

2. As King of The Crimson Order, who would you say helped you the most?

All of Equilism. Couldn't have happened without them, and there was no one I could trust more, and no one there I couldn't trust. God Bless them!

3. If you were to stay Delegate, did you have a successor or heir you wanted to become Delegate after you?
4. If you could change anything about TCO, what would it be?

Those kind of go together. I would say my biggest failure, outside of bad RL circumstances, was that I didn't designate someone to take over from me. That's the one thing I would change. I would have appointed Dalimbar.

Had I done so, when my Influence ran out, there would be someone else to continue. Or had we switched out the Delegacy before my Influence ran out, Elu wouldn't have been able to steal the Delegacy.

That's the key point where I failed.

Modern Day RO's would have locked the Crimson Order in place, with a pool of Influence to work with. But we didn't have that luxury.

5. How did you make the transition from TNP to TWP?

After I lost the Delegacy, I left NS for a time. Obviously, I had RL issues to deal with, and my health....well, I'm permanently disabled now. I was in a haze of medications and conditions and I couldn't think straight. There was concern I might only have a couple years to live. (after enough testing, it was found that wasn't the case....still, averages would say I have ten years left, but I'm planning a full long life)

My mind has cleared the past couple years, so I'm able to answer your questions now.

I came back to NS and knew I couldn't lead an army again, or deal with running for office through NS politics. I can't deal with it. Can't get into long convoluted debates of the finer points of R/D over an election with a cloudy mind. But I knew I could still serve as Delegate, and the only Delegacies I was interested in is GCRs.

I first ventured to the new Osiris and considered getting involved there. But the system was so convoluted, and difficult to understand and navigate (I'm sure that was on purpose)....and the atmosphere of conflict was too toxic. So I left. I've kept a puppet there, but never got involved. (Except to void the TWP treaty with Gatesville when they included forum destroyers in their raid on Osiris...shameful. TWP members worked to keep the peace on the RMB in Osiris)

I had several offers of jobs around NS at that time. I recall Unibot offering me a couple positions. I turned them down. I appreciate the consideration though.

I had long decided that in the end, I would 'retire' to The West Pacific where Westwind was born when it was time to leave NS. And so, after Osiris, that's where I went.

No other region is more comfortable for me than TWP.

Before long, TWP Delegate Yy4u was asking me if I'd be interested in serving as Guardian. I think it was about a month, maybe more, before I finally accept it. And that lead to my TWP Delegacy where I served as the longest sitting Delegate of TWP. 5 years later and I still hold the record, though some have intended to break it. It'll be fun to see who finally breaks the record.

I am immensely appreciative and thankful to TWP for allowing me to serve, and giving me the opportunity show that I am a good Delegate, regardless of opinion against me and the Crimson Order.

I can't thank TWP enough!

6. Do you think TNP would accept you as a citizen if you moved back and applied with Lewis and Clark?

I do, yes. Other former TNP 'Rogue' Delegates have become delegate again in TNP. I was asked to participate in some history talks there once. I just don't feel I would be comfortable there. And I can't stand overly legalistic/bureaucratic regions like TNP insists upon. I did not participate in the Constitutional conventions in TNP after Delegate Pixiedance, because the political discussion is too toxic. Gotta parse every single word and punctuation and bring useless legal cases to waste folks time. Grosse and Ivan arguing back and forth over a meaning of a word or the position of a period. It's insane. It's not for me.

I loved and cared enough about TNP to work for it's liberation from UPS Rail/Great Bight and spend a year again in working for liberation from Pixiedance. And then try to restore activity in a proud region that lost it's way, when no one else would try, even among it's own. TNP was my second NS home back then.

Nations, Citizens, and Friends of The North Pacific,

I wish to announce my candidacy for UN Delegate of The North Pacific, and ask for your endorsement.

We have come to a critical point in the history of TNP. Our region has weathered a variety of political and military conflicts, and we now face the specter of inactivity in our government at nearly all levels and positions in the region.

My official candidacy announcement can be read on the forum, under Elections:
http://z13.|invisionfree|.com/TNP

I believe that together we can bring pride and prosperity to The North Pacific. Build our community and and be a strong and vibrant region once again.

I ask you today for your endorsement, for UN Delegate of The North Pacific.

Thank you!

7. Favorite moment from TCO?
8. How did TCO interact with TRR?

I can't think of any particular favorite moment. I suppose the days we launched the Crimson Order and opened the new forums. All the preparations and planning allowed all to go smoothly. It all worked exactly as planned, even though I'd tried to make the other options work first.

The only direct interaction I recall with TRR was with Kandarin regarding TEP. Of course, defenders were against me, but there was no animosity or direct conflict with TRR that I recall. And for the plan to replace the inactive Gnid in the TEP Delegacy, he semi-woke up and that was the end of that.

Texas for many years then claimed that I had overthrown TEP. I've never understood that claim. Never happened.

9. Could you name a few of the most prominent opposition members?

Flem, Great Bights Mum, Grosseschnauzer, Elu, Sedge, Numero Capitan (who was found guilty of spying on Equilism for FRA when Equilism was an FRA ally, long after Crimson Order was over - he was banned)....hard to think back to then.

Kharkistan was working with the CO, but turned traitor and posted private Crimson Order forum threads to the 'Old Guard' of TNP. It didn't matter much, it was all old info, no longer relevent.

Khark being Khark. I don't even know who invited him there in the first place - I presume it was Brom. And Brom gave him access to the private areas Sunday. I still don't know why, but Brom trusted him for some reason.

Brom has apologized.

Gatesville has established a new forum for war planning.

Felasia reported on defender's positions:

Officially, they only care whether we're invader or defender. Unofficially with some members like Sir Lans, they don't like what West is doing and want to intervene, but they can't because of the charter of FRA. It's mainly because of the Destroyer idea from the Neutral Territory that West once spoke about and they think that TNP is just a start. In my opinion, Destroyer will thoroughly destroy every defender organization that is left. They don't want to fight that kind of gigantic organization because they will lose; it's like the Atlantic Alliance and ADN, but this time there will be no ADN.

The Crimson Order was never Destroyer. Two different things. Khark was running a Destroyer operation/group on his own based on those Neutral Territory ideas. I had nothing to do with it.

10. How would you say TCO impacted future TNP?

Hmmm.....How about this - TNP lost the services and talents of Westwind, and TWP gained them. *chuckles*

Hard for me to say, since I was inactive afterwards. All they had to do is elect a new Delegate, their forums and constitution were still there, no communities were destroyed. I know they rushed to make it 'illegal' for a delegate to change forums. I continue to disagree with that. A Delegate should not be bullied and controlled by an offsite forum that doesn't work with the Delegate.

While I'm sure things calmed down afterwards, I felt that the Crimson Order succeeded in it's mandate.

From the poor state of NS affairs at the beginning...to end with having the WA instead of the UN, Max was back having abandoned NS2, Admins were finally paying attention to the game and adding new features , and mods were responsive to requests again, and NS regions and organizations were re-aligning, re-activating, and doing things together again.

I still see it as a success, regardless of losing the Delegacy. We accomplished what we sought to accomplish. Restore activity to NS.

11. Did anyone convince you to establish TCO or kind of nudge you or was it all you?

I think it was a combination, but I don't really recall. I had confidence in my capabilities to pull it off after The Schism in Equilism. And I'd say others had the same confidence and encouraged me. The overall concept was mine, and I was the spearhead of it all. Couldn't have done any of it without help.

12. Least favorite moment from TCO?

Easy. Every time Flem posted on the RMB. Yeah, he turned himself into a real enemy. It wasn't funny.

13. In the end, how did you lose the Delegacy?

It was becoming harder and harder to eject and ban enough nations each day to hold the Delegacy as my Influence couldn't keep up. I was negotiating the turn over of the Delegacy to Great Bights Mum, when Elu simply stole it. As I said, they didn't negotiate in good faith.

But that's the way the political game goes, it's not suppose to be a fair game, heh.

14. Did any other GCRs or popular UCRs recognize TCO as legitimate?

Yes, we became allies with NPO for example, although one day I came online and found my cabinet talking about war with NPO. Talk about the unexpected. Some misunderstanding while I slept had The Pacific and TNP close to war. I was able to work it out with Moo Cow With Guns and settle it down.

All regions recognized me as the elected Delegate of TNP, because I was. The only ones that claimed I wasn't legit, were defenders after I announced the Crimson Order in February. They ignored that I was elected after that point, and tried to claim Equilism had Invaded TNP by sending nations in to put me in the Delegacy on January 22nd.....but Equililsm was allied to TNP since '04, and had helped with every single delegate transition. It was not an invasion, it was a poor excuse for defenders to ignore their ideals to attack me.

15. Did you learn any lessons from TCO?

Stay away from GCR Delegacies when you have RL issues going on.

[Manson]

Wow, heavy stuff.

Thanks for all your time and nice responses, Westwind, you've been kind and I appreciate that. At the moment, I have only a few questions left, however, CoS may have some! Here are some questions I still have:

1. What was equivalent of the position of Minister/Director in The Crimson Order?
2. Do you have a favorite enemy from back then? Who was the best person to fight against while remaining friends or kind to each other OOC?
3. How has TCO impacted the GCR governments of today?
4. What did you plan on doing in Osiris when it was created? Were you looking for a new home?
5. I noticed by scrolling through your posts that you congratulated Nai on becoming Delegate after Kandarin have his nation to her. Were you a citizen here?

[Westwind]

Thanks for all your time and nice responses, Westwind, you've been kind and I appreciate that.

My pleasure. *tips hat*

But you see, you have me looking at some of my records, and I forgot about this one. Related to the new ADN plan with TNP/Equilism/Nasicournia was a suggestion for Nasicournia to become a Protectorate of Equilism. My notes:

I have finally heard from PH. We'll be talking more about it.
Side note - she's offered to make me a mod in CN. *shock*

I turned down the CN mod offer.

But I think you'll like this note I found. This will give you a better answer as to the early formation of the Organization, The Crimson Order:

January 20, 2008 (two days before I ascended the TNP Delegacy)

A conference for a new organization has now begun. Currently represented are:

Equilism
The North Pacific
Gatesville
The Last Kingdom

The first two naming ideas on the table are:

The Empire
The Crimson Order

Ideas for goals a purposes -

Eliminating Graveyard regions
Imperialism - Region Amalgamation
AdSpam Crusade
Creating/Becoming the new 'Evil' in NS

The new ADN plan was more advanced than the Crimson Order at that point. This was a first meeting. TWP was also contacted, and Delegate TAO indicated interest, but was planning on stepping down as Delegate.

But I was fed up with TNP's refusal to work with me by the end of the month.

January 31, 2008
Thread title: Kralizek
"Kralizec is the long-foretold 'battle at the end of the universe.' And it was a term used by the God Emperor Leto II to denominate the chaotic period after his death, the Famine Times and The Scattering."

I, Westwind, being of tired mind and body, do hearby bequeath.....

TNP's going to be the death of me unless I become a 'rogue' delegate.

The nitpicking, twisted thinking, bound and determined to have processes over every little thing to drag each thing out for weeks......Flem, Grosse, Roman, Sniffles, GBM.......*throws up his hands in frustration*

Can't work with them at all.

And this huge inactive RA membership that never participates except to vote, and then votes with the old guard.

So, I'm going to plan to go rogue soon. Might fail spectacularly, or might get a few interesting weeks in.

I'm just going to plan on this being my swan song. I'm tired. If it fails, thats fine, it's time for me to logoff and call it a day. If it succeeds in anyway, great, I'll see it wherever it goes.

It just isn't going to work though if people don't help. I can't counter an unendorsement campaign myself. Things like that. We'll just see how really interested in this sort of thing anyone is.

It's time to stop talking.

Ivan will be making his swan song starting tonight. He will take the TP delegacy and, in his words....'wage war against NS,' then quit. I won't upstage him.

February 1, 2008

*hugs West*

If there's anything you need, I'll be around.

Will you still hang out with us? I'd hate to see you go.

If I'm not too terribly hated by then , and I can't keep being one to hold the region together or revive it when inactivity brings things low. If people want it to stay alive they have to be willing to put in the effort for themselves. It was always our goal, Equility and I, for the region to take care of itself. He and I were only to step in when absolutely needed. And we were to take turns doing that.

.....essentially Chauce is the Heir to Equilism.

she wont be the only one. you are the final co founder and even if you quit you will still the head of state.

i would try and propose somthing in the RA if i had the confidece to do so but at the moment i still feel very new to TNP. although all the RA seem intrested in the there university which seams to hold no major advantage in the region.

maybe to sitr up confilct you could but it that equilism is behind this, TNP protoctorate of equilism, would be a good start to the evil campnain

We might want to use this as an introduction of our new organization. I'm already there and if you start it, I'm going to make a hell of a fight with you too. The RA is too bureaucratic and we will end up with another set of inacitivity if it continue like this. The old guard are blinded with their power.

If it fails, then at least stay here with us. I think our community is stronger than any other region with our spamming, RP, and debate. Even if they close NS down tomorrow, I think most of us will still be here. At least I will still be spamming.

Sometime between now and Valentine's day, we'll kick this in. The sooner the better, and if I can pull it off this weekend, that'd be great with me. Don't know if that's practical though.

Looks to me that this will be a one-day thing for Ivan.

I'm writing a Codex for TNP, based on the Imperial Equilism Codex.

Fel, I may just elevate you to the Cabinet there.

Too many might be upset with me as an 'evil guy' for me to stay in Equilism. That's been a consideration before, so I'll depart and leave Equilism to you all if the need arises.

NK said he'd have a speech written for me by tonight.

And I need to talk to Gates.

The idea to seek a protectorate status under Equilism for Nasicournia to ensure it's protection while inactive in a new ADN was still active on February 10th, two days after launching The Crimson Order.

Instead, FRA lost it's mind. I had raider allies providing me with intel via their spies in FRA. FRA cut off all Equilism access (even though Equilism was an FRA ally), but I still had access.

By the end of February 10th

have a log that indicates Geo_X wanted to invade TNP to take me out on Friday night. We have the evidence to paint them as invaders if needed.

Sir Lans is preaching the line that I've killed the game.

<Geo_X> when is the douche- err, I mean WW, tearing up the constitution?
<JAL> heh
<JAL> hard to say
<JAL> Depends where his influence goes after the update, etc
<Geo_X> i wish we could have invaded last night
<Geo_X> we just didn't get enough dudes
<JAL> yeah, you'd have needed 40-ish
<JAL> now the gap is nearing 100
<Geo_X> well, when the build-up dies down
<Geo_X> we'll get him back

"I wish we could have invaded last night," said the "defender".

On February 14th, discussing FRA's actions Free4All said:

They're not worthy of the label Defender.

He said it, not me. *shrugs*

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've done some more research, and I'd say this is the post that was the Genesis of the plans and The Crimson Order:

November 17, 2007

As *redacted* can attest, now and then there have been some discussions on IRC about what could be done to generate activity in NS. Basically, the conclusion is that what is needed is a way to generate conflict.

The question then leads to - What kind of conflict and how do we generate it?

Some of the ideas that get thrown into the mix have to do with making use of existing dichotomy's such as the Feederite/Userite philosophies. And most all agree that the invader/defender dynamic is secondary side line that no longer lends itself to creating the needed conflict.

*redacted* and I have been discussing a few ideas as well. What we've generally come to is the question - how can we generate interest/activity both internally and externally to Equilism. Are there existing dynamics that we can build upon or direct to create tension and conflict to generate that interest and activity ? And further, how can we do this without resorting to means that have been used and tried before ?

I have also discussed some non-Equilism based ideas with *redacted*. One of the most interesting ones that we have discussed would be a revival of the old Sons of Liberty, which was a defender group that invaded invader regions. A counter-invader group. One of the thoughts along those lines was a Pirate themed group that would base out of TRR and the Pacifics. The group could attack invaders, as well as harrass feeder governments to create additional conflict.

I've also been trying to promote more radical changes in TNP as well. One of the three current Constitution proposals up for vote has a narrow chance of passing, but we will soon see. I have suggested that they should have a Delegate campaign, with each delegate candidate presenting their plan for a new government/theme/etc. It would give the opportunity for NS based voting through endorsements for competing means to organize and run the region. It at least provides the opportunity for real change and interest.

Anyway, that gives you an overview of why you've been invited here, and where discussions are going. I am also interested in recommendations for others to invite to this conversation.

----------------------------------------------

Now....those questions....

1. What was equivalent of the position of Minister/Director in The Crimson Order?

I'm not sure I remember correctly to be honest. I don't have that info handy. I think the Ministerial title was Lord Governor. As in Lord Governor General Grimlock would be Military Minister. I'd have to dig up the Codex/Charter to get the details.

2. Do you have a favorite enemy from back then? Who was the best person to fight against while remaining friends or kind to each other OOC?

I'd have to say Great Bights Mum. Oh and believe it or not Grosseschnauzer (sp) and I got along fine personally. And Chaucerin and Biyah during The Schism before. Though in their cases, that was a confrontation planned by both parties.

Most talented opponent, all time: Ivan Moldavi/Pierconium. He earned my respect.

3. How has TCO impacted the GCR governments of today?

I don't know that it has, but I'll mention that Milograd told me that The Crimson Order was his inspiration for his Rogue Delegacy.

4. What did you plan on doing in Osiris when it was created? Were you looking for a new home?

I was interested in the Delegacy because I believed I could serve a new GCR well.
Though I suppose I wanted to prove that I'm not the evil guy I was made out to be.

I'm sorry, but honestly, I really didn't kill NS.

5. I noticed by scrolling through your posts that you congratulated Nai on becoming Delegate after Kandarin have his nation to her. Were you a citizen here?

I've never frequented the TRR forums, but I usually have puppets in every GCR. I only have puppets in TWP/TP/TEP/Laz at the moment though. I often kept puppets Toltec Warrior or Nemesis Raider here in TRR. *scratches head* If I have them alive at the moment, they'll be in my region The Watchtower. I don't think I'll bother looking right now though.

I was in touch with Nai during that transition. We had discussed some ideas she had regarding TRR and Equilism in that transition, (and she turned the Equilism Foundership back to me in the process). I expressed some concerns I had for her plans in TRR. At the same time Crazy Girl contacted me, and was upset about the transfer. It was a bit of an awkward place to stand between friends Nai and CG.

[Westwind]

Random graphics from TNP/Crimson Order


Elected seconds ago....


.
.
.
.
I was incorrect, my Delegacy was 97 days. Final screen shot:
.

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.

.

.

.

.

.

.

[Westwind]

At one point, the NPO asked The Crimson Order for assistance from an invasion.

[18:26] <Moo-Cows> it was Nevadar behind the whole unendo campaign against me
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> for an OOC reason that she was wrong about
[18:27] <Lewis_and_Clark> good greif
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> she got Catlandtopia
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> Domination
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> and even some alliances from CN!!!
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> that was over the top
[18:27] <Lewis_and_Clark> yeah
[18:27] <Lewis_and_Clark> that's b
[18:27] <Lewis_and_Clark> *bs
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> the person who ran the scripts to do it told me about it
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> and apologized
[18:27] <Lewis_and_Clark> at least that's something
[18:27] <Moo-Cows> gave me the logs where it was all organized

[15:26] <Moo-Cows> Lewis_and_Clark
[15:27] <Lewis_and_Clark> Aye
[15:33] <Moo-Cows> there's another little plot to overthrow me
[15:33] <Moo-Cows> care to give me some E-Army?
[15:33] <Lewis_and_Clark> I think we can do that
[15:34] <Moo-Cows> thanks
[15:34] <Lewis_and_Clark> np
[15:36] <Lewis_and_Clark> mission posted
[15:37] <Moo-Cows> Nevadar was behind the last one
[15:37] <Moo-Cows> JAL and Blamange are behind this one
[15:37] <Moo-Cows> rumored with Cortath
[15:37] <Moo-Cows> but I'll tallk with Cortath
[15:38] <Moo-Cows> so I'll be in a conference with JAL, Nevadar, Darkesia, Cortath (he did participate with Nevadar)?all who have/are attempting to take the Pacific
[15:38] <Moo-Cows> should be interesting
[15:38] <Moo-Cows> should put that in my sig
[15:38] <Moo-Cows>
[15:38] <Lewis_and_Clark> indeed
[15:38] <Lewis_and_Clark> I was chatting with BB earlier
[15:39] <Lewis_and_Clark> didn't say anything about it
[15:39] <Moo-Cows> New Kervoskia as well
[15:39] <Lewis_and_Clark> interesting

I don't think the NPO remembers that they needed our assistance.

[thechurchofsatan]

They do have like 14 years of history to remember or forget.

[Westwind]

They do have like 14 years of history to remember or forget.

*chuckles*

The NPO once approached me to design new graphics for a change from the NPO. I also wrote some of Emperor Moo's speeches.

I present you with one of the drafts graphics for The Imperial Garrison of The Pacific:

[Westwind]

Meanwhile in TEP, January 20, 2008

Kandarin approached me today about help with TEP.

Gnid has gone inactive....sort of. He logs into his nation, but does not answer telegrams, and doesn't swap endorsements. He doesn't login to the TEP forum. His endos are dropping fast.

I suggested Dali, and he's not opposed. However, there is a fly in the ointment. Loop has been endo swapping, and is 45 away from the delegacy.

Loop has not been endorsing everyone though.

Dali is about 70 endos away from Gnid. So I'm hoping he'll show up somewhere tonight, so I can get him together with Kandy - who is anxious to get something going.

And on the 21st

Had a conference with Kandy, Dali and myself.

Kandy agreed to having Dali endo swap towards the Delegacy.

But a side note, that Dark is also in TEP and is a 'candidate' for delegate.

Loop has been swapping at Kandy's request.

He also agreed to having me move a puppet into TEP and being an advisor there.

I have talked to Gates, and he has agreed to send GV help when asked. His price for the help is UN votes (naturally). Makes little difference to me.

I mentioned to Kandy that I might have a way to contact Gnid. He replied that if they hadn't already been able to get ahold of him, he couldn't be contacted. So I'll leave it at that.

[Westwind]

And then there was Grub at 10000 Islands trying to poach Equilism players:

February 22, 2008

The United States of Grub
Received: 2 days ago Hi *redacted*,

We have had a few of your long time members voice their displeasure with the recent events over there. Are you also unhappy with all that has happened? I understand that you too have a nice position over there, but if you feel like that organization is going against what you believe, let me know. If you are happy over there then I am sorry to have bothered you.

Grub

Hi Grub!

Thank you for you message.

I'm not entirely sure whether I'm satisfied either with the current goings-on in Equilism. But it's Equilism, so criticism is always permitted and reforms of the Constitution and re-enacting of a democratic system are underway.

However, I'm interested to know who those "long time members" of whom you speak are. If I do decide to leave Equilism, I'd know who to look out for. And I'd also like to hear their concerns.

I hope to hear from you soon!

*redacted*

[Westwind]

The North Pacific Codex

Governance of The North Pacific

Section 1 - The Government

Subsection A - The highest authority in The North Pacific is The Delegate. The The North Pacific Codex affirms this authority and recognizes The Delegate's wishes concerning regional governance.

Subsection B - Governance of The North Pacific is invested in The High Council The North Pacific.

Section 2 - The High Council of The North Pacific

The High Council shall be composed of those offices so chosen by The Delegate. It shall serve The Delegate, representing the region in the exercise of it's duties.

Subsection A - Service in The High Council shall be at the pleasure of The Delegate. The Honor of title and authority shall be obtained through merit, activity, and proven ability.

Subsection B - The High Council may, with the indulgence of The Delegate, create Officiates which shall be offices of The North Pacific that have specified duties.

Subsection C - The High Council shall be composed of the following:

- Lord Advocate General for Judicial Affairs

The Lord Advocate General serves the primary purpose of enforcing the will of The Delegate. The Lord Advocate General will preside over all hearings, trials and adjudications in the region. Deriving his authority from the will of The Delegate, he will have primacy in these matters and authority over all judgments and verdicts. Further, the Lord Advocate General will have the right to appoint Inquisitors in time of need.

The Lord Advocate General can interpret and expand upon existing law as needed.

- Lord Marshal General for Defense and Security

The Bureau of Intrigue, headed by the Praetor, is responsible for Regional Security and carries out Intelligence Operations througout NationStates. The Bureau provides security guidelines for the region and analyses collected information in regard to Regional and Allied Security.

The Imperial Guard and Guardians of the Realm, to be headed by the Protector of the Realm and Praetor of the Imperial Guard, is responsible for the use of military force and the defense of The North Pacific. The Praetor will also be responsible for commanding the The Imperial Guard. The Guard is subject to the Authority of the The Delegate, and/or those appointed into such a position by The Delegate. The Imperial Guard shall act for the defense of the The North Pacific region, its allies and friendly regions deemed to be under attack by aggressor regions.

- Lord Ambassador General for International Affairs

International Affairs, to be headed by Lord Ambassador General, will be responsible for maintaining and opening relations with regions and organizations outside of The North Pacific. International Affairs will also be responsible for appointing and receiving ambassadors from other regions. This Department has the responsibility to negotiate alliances, write treaties and communicate with foreign regions and organisations.

- Lord Commissioner General for Internal Affairs

Internal Affairs, headed by the Lord Commissioner General, will be responsible for keeping up to date with the happenings in the region, communicate with (new) members and provide information to regional members. IA shall also initiate and oversee activities for the general entertainment of the The North Pacific member nations.

The Immigration Agency is a sub-department of Internal Affairs. Immigration is responsible for seeking out new nations and encouraging them to join and participate in the The North Pacific Region.

- The Regional Assembly

The Concilium, headed by the Praetor, shall have the responsibility of representing the citizenry of The North Pacific to the Imperial Government. It shall have the responsiblity of recommending legislation to The High Council, and assisting the Bureaus in their various operations.

Section 3 - The Regional Assembly

The Regional Assembly is hereby established to further enhance the political body and the voice of the citizens of The North Pacific.

Subsection A: Duties and Responsibilites

The Regional Assembly is charged with the responsibility of representing the ideas and concerns of the citizens of The North Pacific. In carrying out this responsibility, The Regional Assembly shall have the following duties:

1. Consideration of all matters of import concerning the region.
2. Discuss, debate, write, and present resolutions for the consideration of The High Council.
3. Enact it's own internal procedures.
4. Regional Assembly members are required to actively participate in regional Immigration through recruitment efforts.
a - Regional Assembly members may opt-out of recruitment efforts after a period of no less than two weeks. This option can only be used when a member chooses to actively participate in one of the following: International Affairs, Defense and Security, Internal Affairs

Active participation in one of these areas must be approved and validated by the appropriate Lord General.

Subsection B: Oversight

Oversight shall be the responsibility of The High Council. The Preator of the Concilium shall have the duties of direct oversight, as well as liason between The Concilium and The High Council.

Subsection C: Requirements

In order to be a member of The Regional Assembly, the following requirements must be met:

1. The candidate must be an The North Pacific citizen in good standing.
2. The Candidate must show a minimum of two weeks presence in the region and on the forum.
3. The candidate must sign the Oath of The Concilium.

Subsection D: Removal

Tribunes may be removed from office by The High Council or The Delegate under the following conditions.

1. Inactivity after 14 days
2. Violations of Guidelines and Laws
3. Failure to carry out the duties and responsibilities enumerated in Section 1.
4. Conduct unbecoming a member of The Concilium

Section 4 - Citizenship

Citizenship in The North Pacific is attained through the residence of a nation within the region.

Subsection A - Nations that are UN members are granted the right to indicate their vote on UN resolutions on the forum.

Subsection B - Nations that have primary citizenship in another region may apply for dual-citizenship.

Section 5 - UN Delegate

The UN Delegate of The North Pacific shall vote on UN resolutions based upon polling of the UN member nations of The North Pacific.

Section 6 - Criminal Offences in The North Pacific

These laws are hereby declared effective, in the interests of maintaining order and the sovereignty of The North Pacific and of protecting the rights of its member nations.

From now on, the following attempts at these acts, successful or unsuccessful, shall be prosecutable offences in the region of The North Pacific, which shall demand punishment as determined by the Consul of Laws and Imperial Inquisitor:

1. Posting of any content considering spamming, including content that is obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, defamatory, or otherwise understood to be spam is prohibited.

a). This applies to a nation's name, motto, and other customisable fields, any messages written, images posted, or any other content uploaded or linked.

2. The practice of "griefing" is prohibited. Griefing is playing with the primary aim of annoying or upsetting other people.

3. Attempting to steal another nation's identity is prohibited.

4. Any attempt to impersonate another player, including attempting to hack nation or region passwords is prohibited.

5. Nations that threaten the security of the region, through threat or action, shall be subject to removal and criminal action.

a). Organizing, promoting, or conspiring to enage in an unendorsement campaign against the delegate is prohibited.

6. Treason: No nation shall work intentionally to the detriment of The North Pacific or Allied regions or organizations, to directly or indirectly attack or weaken the region or its allies. This is capital offense.

7. Insurrection: No nation shall intentionally attempt to overthrow, violate or ignore the authority of the reigning government established by The The North Pacific Codex or undermine any rule of The The North Pacific Codex itself. This is a capital offense.

8. Espionage: No nation shall attempt to to collect and/or disclose sensitive information to nations that are not specifically privy to that information or somehow purposely aid in such an inappropriate transfer of information. Nations are also not allowed to attempt to collect information that they are not privy to know themselves. These are capital offences.

9. Military Aggression: No nation shall engage in military action unsanctioned by the government of The North Pacific against anyone, anywhere and at any time. This is a capital offence.

10. Coercion: No nation shall attempt to force other member states to act against their will by threats of violence, humiliation or the deprivation of rights and services typically enjoyed by members of Nation States.

11. Perjury: No nations shall lie while testifying before a court of law or any government branch.

12. Conspiracy: No nations shall conspire with others to achieve the offences listed here.

13. Concealment: No nation shall attempt to conceal the perpetration of the offences listed here, including this one.

Furthermore, all actions not listed here, but listed as prohibited in any other official government document are to be taken as criminal offences.

Section 7 - Rights of Nations

1. Self-determination. Each nation state will maintain the right to govern itself in accordance with its own customs and desires.

2. Freedom of speech. The Freedom of Speech within The North Pacific shall be maintained within the common bonds of propriety, and within those rules governing all participation and etiquette in NationStates. Forum Guidelines and Regional Law shall always be enforced.

3. All UN nations will have the right to participate and vote on each UN Resolution.

4. The UN Delegate of The North Pacific shall vote in accordance with the will of the reigon, by vote of UN nations on the forum.

5. All nations will have the right to a trial in accordance to the The North Pacific Codex and Law.

[Manson]

And then there was Grub at 10000 Islands trying to poach Equilism players:

February 22, 2008

The United States of Grub
Received: 2 days ago Hi *redacted*,

We have had a few of your long time members voice their displeasure with the recent events over there. Are you also unhappy with all that has happened? I understand that you too have a nice position over there, but if you feel like that organization is going against what you believe, let me know. If you are happy over there then I am sorry to have bothered you.

Grub

Hi Grub!

Thank you for you message.

I'm not entirely sure whether I'm satisfied either with the current goings-on in Equilism. But it's Equilism, so criticism is always permitted and reforms of the Constitution and re-enacting of a democratic system are underway.

However, I'm interested to know who those "long time members" of whom you speak are. If I do decide to leave Equilism, I'd know who to look out for. And I'd also like to hear their concerns
I hope to hear from you soon!

*redacted*

Grub was a uh, in the nicest words possible, a jerk.

Here's a few more questions:

1. Which nation did you try to become the Delegate of Osiris with?
2. Have you thought of joining any other regions since your retirement?
3. Democracy or Meritocracy?
4. If asked, would you take up a job in TWP again?
5. Why don't you like Discord?
6. Is Westwind your first nation?
7. Favorite GCR other than TWP?
8. Who was your most vocal supporter during TCO?
9. Where were you in NS before TWP, TNP, and Equilism?
10. Have you ever thought of becoming a GCR Delegate again, excluding Osiris?
11. How do you feel about TWP's current government?
12. What are your opinions on all GCR governments?
13. Do you ever think about what might've happened if you would've not lost the seat in TNP? Think as if The Crimson Order was permanent, and effectively replaced TNP's prior government.
14. Have you tried to coup any other GCRs?
15. How did you find NS?
16. Favorite moment on NS as a whole?
17. Were you a citizen of TNP when Emperor Matthuis couped and handed over his nation to Neo/New Kervoskia? If so, did this impact TCO in any way? How did you feel?
18. Favorite GCR Delegate ever?
19. Any notable moments from TCO you'd like to share?
20. When was the last time you spoke with NK, Durk/JAL, Dali, and co?

[Westwind]

Grub was a uh, in the nicest words possible, a jerk.

I never had any issues with him personally and worked closely with him via ADN. Equilism founder Equility was first recruited to 10KI, and then founded Equilism to establish his own Defender region in January '04.

But, Grub never didn't well with other regions. Wouldn't work directly with other defenders and betrayed core ideals of most Defenders by their counter-attacks on Raider regions. (a policy I did not disagree with myself)

1. Which nation did you try to become the Delegate of Osiris with?

My Osiris nation was Siberian Khatru. I did not actively pursue the Delegacy or seek endorsements. Once I saw the mess in Osiris, I knew it was pointless.

2. Have you thought of joining any other regions since your retirement?

No, though I maintain a couple puppet regions. The Watchtower and another that I'll leave secret....it's just a silly region that interacts with other silly regions. I don't want to put a 'Westwind' label on it.

RL has been crazy the past four years, so there hasn't been time to spend on NS activity. Too many friends and family to bury and mourn, too much work cleaning up Estates. It gets a little crazy when 20 friends and family die around you.

3. Democracy or Meritocracy?

Meritocracy every time. Just say 'No' to mob rule.

4. If asked, would you take up a job in TWP again?

It depends upon the position and my RL situation.

5. Why don't you like Discord?

*chuckles* I don't really dislike Discord, although I'm sure it seems that way.

Since the end of the Crimson Era as my health deteriorated, I have difficulty understanding people talk when I can't watch their faces, and I became stressed when folks want to have multiple conversations with me at the same time in any chatroom....Discord/IRC/Facebook Messenger/whatever. Most every platform I show up on, multiple people want to talk to me at once, and I just can't do it. I have a rare form of Epilepsy (there are 60 types), and those stresses lead to seizures, of which I already have 2 to 5 each week. I don't need more seizures. My medications specifically slow brain function...thus I get overwhelmed too easily.

So I'm not against Discord or any other chat. It's just been a problem for me personally. Unfortunately, that means I'm cut off from much of NS activity that now centers on Discord.

6. Is Westwind your first nation?

No, there was one before Westwind, but I do not recall it's name. It was before Christmas 2003, and the holidays were too busy for me to pay attention to a new game. So Westwind was founded when I returned to take another look in January '04.

I wanted to name my first nation 'Albion' but that was already taken. I wanted to found a region called "Pacifica" but that was already taken. In the mid-1980's I tried writing a book, "Alexander of Albion" which was set on the continent Pacifica. The RP background of Westwind is based on that book.

I was later a Founder of the region Albion, with the nation The Jive Experience. I refounded it, after myself and the founder of another region (it was one of the Great Britain regions, I don't recall which) had been keeping puppets to defend it (Founderless at the time). There were no longer any other nations than us, so I refounded, and later CTE'd.

7. Favorite GCR other than TWP?

Hmmm....that's not as easy.

I'd say The Pacific if it wasn't for what the NPO has done to it. It's a tragedy how NPO has treated The Pacific. Crown First Region of NationStates, permanently stifled by a charlatan promoted to Delegate by a game glitch. Then the organization places incompetent inactive Delegates in place for years, while it concerns it self with activities in other games.

That problem needs to be fixed.

I blame Max.

8. Who was your most vocal supporter during TCO?

I dunno, I'd just say all of Equilism again. There was alot of support among Imperialist regions too, I greatly appreciated their support.

My thanks to those Imperialist that told me they'd like to see the return of The Crimson Order when I returned to activity.

9. Where were you in NS before TWP, TNP, and Equilism?

I don't recall where my first nation was founded, just as I don't recall it's name. Westwind was founded in TWP, moved to TNP, then to Equilism.

10. Have you ever thought of becoming a GCR Delegate again, excluding Osiris?

I've not thought about it seriously since my TWP Delegacy, though it is one of the few things that still interests me in NS. I do enjoy serving as a GCR Delegate, and think I do a fair job. I'd prefer someone else lead the government though.

11. How do you feel about TWP's current government?

I'm not involved with it, so it's hard for me to comment much. I'm not a citizen (I disagree with having citizenship oaths, I removed them when I was both TNP ant TWP Delegate....I even refuse the sign the oath in Equilism, and I'm Co-Founder). However I have no issues with the current government.

I didn't like the divides among prominent members that have occurred in recent times. That disturbs me.

12. What are your opinions on all GCR governments?

All GCR governments are Oligarchies. They are not Democracies, they are not Dictatorships, there are Oligarchies. Some Oligarchies are managed through elections among the Oligarchy members, others are managed via the Meritocracy of it's Oligarchy members.

NS Moderators taught me this when I was a wee little nation.

13. Do you ever think about what might've happened if you would've not lost the seat in TNP? Think as if The Crimson Order was permanent, and effectively replaced TNP's prior government.

I don't think about it, no. There was much potential though. I know everyone thought I was going to try to be a permanent Delegate ala NPO, but it was never my intention to stay in the Delegacy longer than six months, and then a successor would take over. Whether that succession would have been by designating an heir or via elections would have depended upon the situation in the region.

The Crimson Order could have been established well enough to survive without TNP, it was only one leg of the organization. There hadn't been enough time to follow through, and my increasing absence due to the RL situation closed that door.

14. Have you tried to coup any other GCRs?

I've run up high in Endorsements in The Pacific, in TEP and TSP to replace sleeping Delegates. Inactive Delegates must be removed to protect the regions and the game. GCRs and new players deserve an active Delegate. You don't have a founder to fall back upon.

Though in this Age of NS we have RO's that can fill in for an inactive Delegate.

15. How did you find NS?

I received an email about NS from my first wife. It was only one of three times I'd heard from her since we divorced. She knew me well enough to know I'd enjoy NS.

16. Favorite moment on NS as a whole?

The Puppetmaster liberation of TNP from Great Bight.

"I once controlled a Feeder Delegacy with only 17 endorsements" - Great Bight

17. Were you a citizen of TNP when Emperor Matthuis couped and handed over his nation to Neo/New Kervoskia? If so, did this impact TCO in any way? How did you feel?

My memory is too hazy on the timing to pin that down exactly. I recall EM's coup, but not it's timing. It had no impact on TCO. How did I feel? I found EM disgusting.

18. Favorite GCR Delegate ever?

Any Delegate that's not JAL.

*chuckles* No, I just can't name a favorite. There have been good and poor Delegates in every GCR. It was funny when TNP Delegate Blackshear's wife moved his nation to TRR while he was Delegate. Delegate LadyRebels in TSP was a kick. Delegate Magicality in TNP was wonderful. Treenudity, Wilkshire.....On and on and on I could go....

20. When was the last time you spoke with NK, Durk/JAL, Dali, and co?

I am in touch with JAL outside of NS. Dali and I exchange a telegram now and then. NK I may not have spoken with since TCO...although my memory tickles me in the back of my head and makes me think I talked to him once or twice since. Many are gone from NS, or are 'retired' and lurk here and there. Felasia was a part and big supporter of the Crimson Order, but in following years turned against it and condemned it in favor of Defenderism. He and I had an unfortunate disagreement in Equilism later. But again, I follow his RL successes outside of NS and I am very proud of him.

19. Any notable moments from TCO you'd like to share?

How about this? During negotiations with Flem and GBM for my withdrawl, before Elu stole the Delegacy, I had written this Farewell Address that was not delivered:

Citizens, Players, Friends -

All things come to an end in due time. Change is an endless stream that travels through this life, this universe in which we live. And now change is upon us once again. In a time of endings, there are opportunities for new beginnings. And sometimes new beginnings themselves bring endings.

The concept of The Crimson Order was born out of stagnation in NationStates. From nearly a year of silence from Admin and uneven moderator responsiveness - "Admin is Dead, the Mods have Abandon us!" Combined with a steady and increasing rate of decline in player numbers and interest. But in recent weeks we have seen the facelift that has been given to NS, the addition of new features, the closing of coding loopholes, the replacement of the UN with the WA, and the announcement of NationStates 2. Admin is not dead, and the mods have not abandon us. The basis for the concept of The Crimson Order was no longer relevent, a fact that I reflected in the renaming and flag change of Lewis and Clark at that time.

Unfortunately, due to RL issues and constraints, I was unable to follow up that fact with further changes in efforts for The North Pacific.

TNP needs active and concerned leadership. I cannot provide such leadership with my current personal situation. I have confidence in the trustworthiness and true concern for the region of Great Bights Mum. While she has been the endorsement leader of the opposition to my delegacy, I have never held any opposition to her personally.

Work together and unify the region. Do not stifle each other's voices and opinions. Don't drive good players away through devisive bickering. It shouldn't be difficult to cordially, respectfully, disagree. While acknowledging that we are all striving for a common goal of an active and vital community here in TNP, that is a part of the larger NS community.

But all I really want to say is 'thank you' to you all. Thank you for the opportunity to enjoy this game with you. Thank you for the opportunity to get to know some of you. Thank you for the opportunity to work with you, to choose sides with you, choose directions with you, build ideas together with you. Thank you for the time we've shared here in this corner of cyberspace. And Best Wishes to each and every one of you in your endeavors and efforts.

Be good to each other. I'll see ya 'round.

Peace

[Manson]

Wow, that's great! Thanks for all the info. Did you have any Vice-Delegates or a second in command that you had people endorse for security purposes?

[Westwind]

Wow, that's great! Thanks for all the info. Did you have any Vice-Delegates or a second in command that you had people endorse for security purposes?

GBM as my first Vice-Delegate, but of course I needed to replace her when I abandoned the forum. (As she was the opposition lead thereafter, in reality, she was always Vice Delegate -TNP was always safe) Then I appointed Nastic. When he was no longer active enough, I appointed The Two-Slit Experiment. They were both listed in the last days of my Delegacy.

It was important to keep TNP rooted in it's own community and history, just as we took actions to maintain Equilism's independence.

The available choices of active, qualified, trustworthy players inside TNP was limited. All part of the inactivity throughout the game. Many fantastic players had already been driven out by frustration at the UPS Rail/Great Bight and Pixiedance situations. Some had left for CN and stayed there. And some were simply busy in RL. The decline in activity began well before Influence was established. The period of decline lasted years.

Some, like myself, had planned to leave NS earlier, but had stayed on in the inactive years in hope of seeing a new generation of player come along to reinvigorate NS. We didn't want to see NS die while we could do something to keep it going. It was a labor of love of NS for some to keep it alive for a new generation.

Notables from all over have showed up, and all have shown an agreement that something has to be done, and more generally that what needs to be done is to have a great conflict.

Honestly, I'm open to just about anything as long as we go ahead and do it.

*redacted* ADN:DSA Minister, December 13, 2007

Revive the ADN, but have it return as a bad cop version of the old entity and have it invade other regions.

I wanted to establish a Guardian system. I talked to Haor Chall about appointing him, but he was too busy IRL. RL was an issue for Dalimbar's activity levels too.

I had supported Dali's previous TNP 'Rogue' Delegacy. The Delegate had no power to fix an inactive government. And got upset with him when he tried.

So I worked with Monte Ozarka on her new Constitution proposal. It passed, and I ran for Delegate. The new constitution recognized the executive authority of the Delegate.

On the Destroyers idea:

TRR would stand to benefit the most from any Destroyers scheme, if they exploited the situation well.

Then there was this idea:

The Eradication of Invader Home Regions....the Genocide of the Raider Regions

This was being considered as part of the

Reformation of the ADN

BTW, Gatesville would have been a member of this new ADN.

December 12, 2007 I said:

If I could take the TNP delegacy and impose a new government, the North Pacific Army could be reinvigorated to join with the E-Army to form a new power block.

Then, from TNP, make the pronoucements against the RMB spammers, with support from Equilism, and go from there.

That plan was retaliating against regions that adspam the TNP RMB.

That was before planning to add Nasicournia and a new ADN.

[punk daddy]

Westie!

Bro - got me out of my cold slumber to post here, man.

I too was part of your cabinet. My omission must have been an oversight. Can't believe this was in 2008?? Geez, when it occurred I felt like the game was dying and here we are in 2019 talking about it.

The Crimson Order was one of my favorite organizations that I was a part of but it sadly died well before it's time. The best part was the games on the forum, one in particular, that had flying penguins. It was addictive.

Okie dokie, back to the crypt.